Home > Twitter > Twitter and Updates.. wearing too many hats really..

Twitter and Updates.. wearing too many hats really..

I have an avid interest in Twitter, it became more of an interest of mine, ever since I started it. I even wrote about a response a while ago comparing it to Plurk. I love thinking about social media, but often because it is hard for me to put down all the words of what I mean, you as a reader would definitely need to have some prior knowledge of this specific social media technology. I think that even that Common Knowledge video is getting slightly dated, and I do love that video. But I digress.

Since this a draft has been written back in October, never got published on another blog – probably for reasons that it doesn’t fit the blog purpose, so what else am I to do? I intensely dislike it when things get obsolete, just like the blog ideas I keep on spinning in my head. For this draft, I was talking about the Twitter List Feature, but am finding it difficult to go and complete lists of my own, because I can end up cataloging people in multiple spots.

———————————–

Like? Hate? Do you think that this is becoming more like a version of Facebook? Well even Michael said that Twitter is being like MySpace, which I am not sure if I agree or not.

michaelpinto: { tech } Twitter is going to keep adding new features until it becomes MySpace

Twitter unveiled a new update.. and that is Lists. Basically you can catalog your friends, your relatives, sports teams.. and I believe I just recited what I read of Twitter’s own tag line.

However lists are bringing out the worst in me.. the tick that makes me go squat on various names/blogs and why my Facebook friend lists is so halp-hazard.

Labels are always a touchy subject of mine. I know so many people, and you can’t really please or satisfy yourself if you have to catalog them. I over catalog, or make too many groups.. gah.. hmm.. but so far I am actually cataloged on 10 other Twitter acquaintances/friend’s lists. So that is neat! Shows the variety of circles I am in..

Thanks to the Twitter acquaintances who would read this post then ^_^

This is what sums up my experience so far.. >_<

miz: And I can’t think of a good list. >_<

miz: Gah.. wtf.. on my Twitter.. several people fit in more categories.. >_<

miz: The way lists is.. is actually making me unfollow people.. oh well. Can cut down on people.

miz: I am unfollowing for these reasons… never seem to talk.. or varied interests..

miz: Ugh!!! Never mind…. have to think about lists more before I throw myself into it.

Now who knows what will happen next..

I saw this statement that Michael tweeted about lately.. some fodder for thoughts.

michaelpinto: { social media } Side benefit of lists on Twitter: With a casual glance you can see how other people classify your interests

Recently, there was an update on the idea of Retweeting. The only thing I can say is that yes, Twittter made it easier for people to pass along ideas, but what sucks about this new feature is as what Michael tweeted.. and I can’t seem to find that tweet, but basically this is what he said, the new RT function is weak because of it’s disability to not let the person who RT’s the conversation input their own idea.. therefore it does get confusing if you look at your tweetline..

Will try to do a write up of just pushing forth my explanations of Twitter sooner or later.

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Categories: Twitter
  1. November 20, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Lists are like proxies, and actually similar to “RT” or reblogging as it is normally known. I quit twitter, I have never been one for these large, centralized, user-herding services despite how many friends actually use them. This isn’t to say I don’t like the concept, I just don’t see why there isn’t an open-source, distributed solution such as WordPress (everyone has a choice about where they want to blog, no?) … With twitter, apparently there is no choice, status-update/microblogging MUST be done on twitter otherwise it’s invalid… I just don’t buy it, so I quit.. and wrote an open specification based on OAuth which allows a federated, real-time, micropublishing/following architecture.

    I bring this up because I thought of “lists” and how my proposed architecture could support a similar feature. The answer was proxies.

    If you think of a list as simply one user “following” a group of users, while simply passing every message that spawn from the group, the concept of proxying should be clear. A given user creates a list/proxy, the proxy is a non-user entity which “follows” users in it’s group. The list/proxy can also be followed just as a regular user, but does not ever create updates or retain updates, it only passes them along.

    It is important to note that when someone to follows a proxy group, they are authorizing the proxy so that proxied messages may be placed in their inbox…. this is exactly the same as following a user.

    If we want to get complex and dynamic, because of the nature of a publisher (either a user or proxy), a proxy may follow another proxy… afaik, twitter lists cannot tread on that water.

    In any case, I feel that recognizing the concept of “list” as simply an automated retweeting/proxying group is an important notion, and not far from how it actually works.

    ^_^

  2. miz
    November 21, 2009 at 11:14 am

    @Ryan – Lists are lists, and this is a new feature that Twitter is trying to push out to force people to recognize similar thought. This is also what social media is.

    When I did my thesis/master’s group project, micro blogging came up, and Twitter is an example of micro blogging, bite size information/links/thoughts/fodder that people can share or what not.

    You see the new trending word is Twitter… or Plurk or another source. Open source, once again gets into programming realm, while Twitter is easily understood by the layman. Also this shows a control of it making an ownership or in terms of a product (commodity), easy for tax revenue if that happens.

    Open source while all is well and good, cannot make money/spell $$ for lots of corporations or businesses.

    What I am trying to point out is that Twitter while it is a specific site, it is an example of popular social media, so there are going to be lots of people wanting to understand what exactly is tips or tutorials or discussion on it. I think about this blog entry, and mostly it is a bite size idea of what my comprehension/discussion/knowledge about a certain area that I know about.

    I look at this type of blogging interesting, because it is more interactive. I can refer to other people’s comments and make infer ideas/citation from them. As a librarian, crediting is where I think it is useful, and as a list feature.. certainly good.. and I think I am in a period where I have to go to work.. ^_^ So ttul. Leaving this idea for thought.

  3. November 21, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    @Miz

    A few things I get/don’t get from this perspective:

    1) Lists have been defined by twitter, thus everyone should stick to their definition.

    2) Twitter owns status-update (You can call it microblogging, but it actually isn’t, /api/status/update. see: tumblr)… then what about Facebook.

    3) Open-source versions of status-update or microblogging are in vein.

    4) Money is what matters…. (Automatic should give up… because open-source is not a commodity, wordpress is not a commodity, because it is a general blogging tool?)

    5) There is no point in generalizing an explanation for non-twitter sites, such as status.net.

    6) What could be done before in a number of ways, is now new?

    I have pondered for quite a bit on these concepts (I created a status-update software in November 2005, based on taskpad.jp… I’ve been rolling with it). I’ve played with twitter, and understood it. The large problem they’ve solved is one users really don’t care about… and had already been solved by the likes of mindset of Google. So where am I now?

    Thoughts
    1) The most important services, are open services.
    — think email, yahoo.com users can send to gmail.com… it’s open, you just need one email (although you’re not limited)
    — think wave protocol, it’s federated
    — this is the future… services which are “nameless/domainless” (non-owned commodity, who owns “BLOG”)
    — this is the present, Blogging

    2) Blogs are the only true and open social community on the net
    — few blogs require membership to interact
    — the blogosphere is likely the largest social community as well
    — Blogs suffer from an outdated notification model (pull rather than push)

    3) I don’t see the point getting caught up with a single-service, when the concept is larger, hence my critical level.

    ^^ There are many layers to graze through “tweeting,” low-to-high, functional-to-physical. The thing is, these layers are not abstracted from one another, and it is important to analyze them all equally.

  4. miz
    November 23, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    @Ryan Ahh sorry to be getting back to you kinda delayed.

    Yes thoughts..

    Thoughts
    1) The most important services, are open services.
    – think email, yahoo.com users can send to gmail.com… it’s open, you just need one email (although you’re not limited)

    Yes there are open services with emails, but as with various companies, different layouts, features or ease of usage. That can make or break the product. Plus if you can purchase features, there more or less improvements or extra service.

    – think wave protocol, it’s federated

    Wave is a great idea, but at this time, still pretty new, and kinda hard to get in and out of really. I have a wave acct, but for some times, I usually have no idea of what to say, so I can observe. Waiting for something to happen with Wave.

    – this is the future… services which are “nameless/domainless” (non-owned commodity, who owns “BLOG”)

    Future is potential, I recall hearing Michael Pinto mention of how important it is to have a domain, identity brand label. So possibilities are endless as to how the future of blogging is going to be really.

    2) Blogs are the only true and open social community on the net
    – few blogs require membership to interact
    – the blogosphere is likely the largest social community as well
    – Blogs suffer from an outdated notification model (pull rather than push)

    I agree with thoughts as to what you’re saying about the blog, and have some thoughts of my own, if you push and pull, more often than not spam and bot usage.

    3) I don’t see the point getting caught up with a single-service, when the concept is larger, hence my critical level.

    I usually try not to be caught up with a single service, but the easiest to mange for me, so far is Twitter.

    ^^ There are many layers to graze through “tweeting,” low-to-high, functional-to-physical. The thing is, these layers are not abstracted from one another, and it is important to analyze them all equally.

    Yep, and all these thoughts are floating in my head, if I wanted to write more about Twitter then I will, but for that it can be explained more in those new fandangled twitter books, or at other sites/blogs. At the present time though, lists have made an impression on me, and I want to be able to share thoughts, and some feelings on this feature.

  5. November 25, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Err, I apologize, I sort of went on a tangent from what I wanted to say; gomen.

    ‘Before defining the usage of “twitter lists”, I felt that gaging their functional aspect should not be overlooked (essentially grouped, automated republishing).’

    I believe that is how twitter has built it. Sure they can say you are “organizing friends” but that’s not really it, because it’s providing a certain view or channel. Where retweet/blog is a custom-controlled item, lists are basically an automated/organized channel.

    I guess I want to say. Who you put into a list doesn’t matter as much as what [content/focus/perspective] comes out of the list.

    🙂 cheerios.

  6. miz
    November 26, 2009 at 1:48 am

    Ahh don’t worry, this is a highly interesting discussion. I don’t have the background of a programmer, so often tech jargon gets lost on me. But as a librarian, I am quite interested in how information is disseminated. Twitter is building as an entity,and yep been trying to put content into lists, and perspectives. Under one name I am on a variety of manga and anime lists, but on my other professional twitter, I am on lists for librarians. People always want to try and make order of things.. so hopefully melative will one day be more user friendly.

  7. November 27, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    Hmm, I see. Lists are an interesting thing, which is why I evaluated such an feature in a federated system (federated being that domain is arbitrary). I think it does add some organization, but fundamentally, I think packing everything into a limited text-space is not a good idea for organization. Lists are a type of meta-aspect, and external to updates, so it is good. On the other end, #tags are also meta, but in twitter’s system, they must take up valuable space inside the text-space, which I feel is a hindrance since long ago. (Melative’s complement to #tags is !tags, which offer the same tagging but are excluded from the message text… I use them very often).

    Yea, melative orz. It was originally intended to be a big multi-media cataloging system, but I regressed the interface, and the addition of the microupdate has not been the greatest thing, since most ppl just use twitter (which is not a good platform imo as it is closed).

    The goal of the microupdate was to allow “tweets” but with meta (the media/title) external to the text, and eventually become cross-domain capable. In this way, friends have the ability to see what X is watching/reading, but because the text is abstracted, spoilers/spam can be avoided… which has be a very large deterrent on my perspective of twitter (anibloggers spam the crap out of stuff and there is no way to avoid it aside from unfollowing.. not to mention many are taking twitter to be the second coming of Jesus).

    Microupdates are being taking out of melative, sort of. I say twitter is closed, but melative is just the same, which is why I designed the specification for Kronblr such that real-time interaction is possible across domains (say from blog to blog) and there’s no requirement of usership if you want to talk to friends on another site.

    I can’t do much about the melative ui, I’m trying :(, Gargron was doing design but has since eloped with twitter and that’s that. Nobody cares about melative because they do the same stuff in twitter, which is why Kronblr is being forked out of the system so to perhaps shift the closed-twitter mindset into something open and more like blogs (back to blogs… notice, I didn’t have to register to comment here). Countless anibloggers don’t even blog anymore because of twitter… it’s been said the blogosphere moved to twitter. I’ve heard, “well at least it’s more active now” but the issue is that it’s more closed. I deleted my twitter, I don’t want it, but I’d still like to be able to interact with the community… if my only option is twitter, something is broken.

    The common perception is that twitter is good for the aniblogging community [because everyone is using it], but the logical proof shows otherwise [because it is a closed community, where blogs are open]. A similar situation might occur if all blogs adopted Discqus for comments. (see http://fukamachi.org/wp/2009/10/27/disqus-a-single-point-of-failure/ )

    We are limiting communication channels.

    So anyway, be on the outlook for Kronblr, it’s not a twitter, but closer to a mix between facewall or a status-tumblr. And for melative, there’s hardly any feedback, so I’m basically blind in knowing how it should look (functionally it’s sound).

  8. miz
    November 27, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    Ahh federated systems. I think about it as federated searching. (Kinda like Google Reader) – or maybe with EBSCO’s new upgrade coming up soon. (This is a subscription database that my work place subscribes to.

    Well yes #tags are counted, which kinda sucks.. but who know what will the future for twitter look lie.

    Oro.. >_< I didn't realize that Melative was having such issues. Well I can say my reason for joining up with Melative was to be able to list what I saw across the board, MAL is limited to only Anime and Manga, so I was hopping that Melative would be my answer for listing doramas. Ehh.. so that's why there is that whole board with "tweeting" notes.

    Eloping is a good and bad thing I am afraid, will it not work out for Melative? I would hope it would be workable sooner or later, but my issues are still as follows, a easy laymen's explanation to adding content, also the fact that the database is pretty bare.

  9. November 28, 2009 at 8:10 pm

    Hmm, I’m not sure I get the Reader connection, but if you mean like a feed reader in general, where you have subscriptions across multiple domains, then I guess that is similar. This EBSCO would be closer I feel, a type of system which unifies data without restricting or centralizing it. Libraries should have this type of thing when you perform a search, it shouldn’t restrict you to that one library. If you think of twitter as a library, you see why just having one library for something so general as a status-update is silly. Virtually, there could/should be many of these services which all can interact with each other, not just twitter (hence federation).

    As for the #tags, StatusNet uses both #tags and !tags, but !tags are for ‘grouping,’ and in Jaiku’s system, #tags create ‘channels’ which are similar to StatusNet groups … you can check all the things out just by visiting the sites. These are really cool features imo, but just like #tags, it is in the hands of the provider to make these features. Twitter is not the end-all, but most users are viewing it like it’s the only thing that exists.

    Kronblr’s notion puts all these possible features in the hands of users through plugins, just as there are many wordpress plugins to accomplish interesting things.

    Melative’s issues are on the front end, but the API which exists for client apps is much more solid. The microupdates you see on melative are a bit different, as they scrobble to the database. So when you talk about a series, it logs it, and if you say ‘watched …’ it marks it watched in your list. I call it textual-scrobbling, as you are allowed to put in a little thought as well as marking something watched/read…. but it’s totally not what melative is for, lol. Kronblr can do the same thing, but with plugins… but at the same time, Kronblr users can install the software on any server they wish.

    The microupdate does more than that though, from that little twitter-like textbox you can log, rate, tag, and recommend titles. Can you do that on twitter… with linkage to an actual database which knows the context/title of the update? (when I recommend something in the microblog it shows up http://melative.com/RyanA/recommendations )

    Oh, the other thing about this textual-scrobbling is that the titles don’t need to be in the database, as we look at updates and add stuff that isn’t in the db.

    Well, I’m not sure how the eloping was a good thing, but you mentioning your issues helps more than you know (I pay attention). Yes, MAL is limited to anime/manga, which is why I don’t use it. The theory goes, why use 4-7 different sites for doing the same thing with ‘entertainment media’ … Our approach is to provide logging, rating, tagging, and social features with fluid functionality for many mediums (or at least the 10+ we handle)…. kinda like a library.

    If you elaborate on what you mean by ‘adding content’ I can make ui changes, make a howto, etc. When you say ‘add content’ I’m thinking adding titles or title-content, such as pictures/resources/descriptions/dates/creators. >_>

    Yea, the database is kinda lacking, although I imported some 6,000+ anime/manga titles, 3000 VNs, and 8000 literature works since the 1600s, but film, tv, dramas, video games, and music are still quite slim. (Adding titles can also be done through the microblog, which is usually how I do it)

    There are possible integrations I’m looking at for filling content, but editors and moderators are the ones who can add titles atm, and the form for doing so is kinda 😦

    I’ve made some changes to the style recently, by adding a simpler ‘Add to Library’ and ‘Favorite’ tools on the top of media pages. I will continue making changes since Gargron’s theme will likely not be finished. I will also aim to add an Add Title form, but the easiest method is generally… if you’re watching/reading something currently, to microblog about it on melative, really, that’s what it’s there for.

    Gosh, so much rambling. Are you on Wave? Maybe you might like to tell me how I can make Melative easier for you. ^^ My wave info: http://aloedream.animeblogger.net/google-wave

  1. November 21, 2009 at 8:58 pm

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